". I realize these events take place in DS1 and this is a DS3 sub, but it has everything to do with the series, and this is the latest place to discuss the series at large, so you'll just have to excuse me for posting this question here. Yes he is probably manipulating you through the lie of the Chosen Undead but he is doing it for what he and Gwyn thought would have been the best for everyone, both the Gods and Mens alike. So midir was specially raised and instructed to eat the dark and kalameet was corrupted as shown in cut content. If you are looking for a quick overview of the game's walkthrough , follow our recommended Game Progress Route.. I read that if you do that, you can gain a power, then talk to Frampt afterward to place it, but where is Kaathe, and how do I find him before placing the lordvessel, assuming I want to join the Darkwraiths? The true role of the Primordial Serpents in the lore is never really elaborated. So Frampt could either be more evil than Kaathe, or he could be argued as having a similar end-goal via different means. Sen's Gate only blocks off Sen's Fortress, Anor Londo (+Duke's Archives/Crystal Cave), and the deepest sections of Giant's Tomb and Demon Ruins (since you need the Lord Vessel from Anor Londo to clear the orange fog, unless there are more skips I'm unaware of). Maybe Frampt's real plan was for you to defeat Gwynn, while learning enough along the way to realize rekindling the flame is a bad idea. Frampt or Kaathe. Kaathe literally runs a band of murderers and is hinted to have caused the people of Oolacile to awaken Manus, bringing about the destruction of their land. Kaathe is a mystery as to what his true motives are. Both ultimately want you to defeat the lord of cinder. Rushing in the “Age of Dark.” And using you for their end goals. I ended up getting to the Four Kings and placing the Lordvessel with Kaathe. He is ambiguously good, he is grooming you in order to succeed to Lord Gwyn and prolong the Age of Fire, a distorted cycle but the alternative is much worse as Kaathe attempts to start the Age of Dark, only ended up as creating destructive abominations like the Four Kings and Manus. Siding with one causes the other to leave you for the rest of the playthrough. 3. Darkstalker Kaathe will appear in the Abyss, after defeating the Four Kings, if the player has not already placed the Lordvessel through Kingseeker Frampt. 18 comments. Unlike the other Lords, the form of the Pygmy is almost impossible to perceive in the opening cutscene, and it is the only time he is visible. share. Is there any way to sell items to Frampt or any other npc if I already acquired Lord Vessel and I want to join Kaathe's covenant? As to why we can get into death cam like that, I have no idea. *SPOILERS* The breaking point is when you place the Lordvessel, and now you won't side with either Frampt or Kaathe. All of Frampt's actions, from Dark Souls, all the way through Dark Souls 3, served to bring this plan to light. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, it is possible to get Kaathe without making Frampy angry. What can be seen is the form of a bald human figure, physically indistinguishable from a modern human. For Dark Souls on the Xbox 360, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Frampt vs Kaathe? I'm sorry for lack of knowledge on these things. Which would be the better choice? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Does choosing between Frampt or Kaathe to.... *Spoilers*". You know what you guys need? Kaathe believes the Age of … Description. Seeking to prolong the enslavement of humanity for the sake of extending the Age of Fire. I'm still not entirely clear on how this skip works, but why is it not used in speed runs? A community dedicated to Dark Souls I, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360/One, and Switch (Remastered). So Frampt could either be more evil than Kaathe, or he could be argued as having a similar end-goal via different means. Question. For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Are Frampt and Kaathe on the same side? #12. I imagine their forms as snakes was somewhat symbolic of their nature. For Dark Souls on the Xbox 360, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "frampt or kaathe Spoilers". or did the ring just say they were gluttons...meh both are selfish traits to have. Frampt isn't outright evil. (btw i already ranked up enough in the darkwraith covenant to get all the items.) Oct 23, 2013 @ 5:16am Nope, you can`t. Its been used in speedruns since it was found ;), can you do this without the sens gate skip too? But then there was fire, and with fire came disparity. I suppose so. Help me understand, why is Sens skip necessary to kill four kings? Press J to jump to the feed. It sounds like the key was placing the lordvessel before ringing the bells, so the skip is required. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Would be kinda cool. Kingseeker Frampt, the Primordial Serpent, is in a deep slumber beneath Firelink Shrine when the Chosen Undead begins their quest. ; You can "Feed" (sell) him any item. The Age of Dark, otherwise known as the Age of Humanity, is an era in the lore of Dark Souls. Kaathe is a Primordial Serpent, just like Kingseeker Frampt.He is the Leader of the Darkwraiths Covenant, and it was he who tempted The Four Kings with the power of Life Drain which, in turn, led to the eventual flooding of New Londo.. You were just a guy who did better than all the other guys. Heat and cold, life and death, and of course, light and dark. Firelink Shrine, where the pool in front of the decrepit statue used to be. The most plausible situation that Kaathe or another serpent would appear is as a ruling party of the Sable church in Londor. The self serving thing makes sense considering the serpent rings say that serpents are...how did the ring put it again? Two sides ont he same coin...Just wanting one side more. just gotta kill ingward. The reason behind my reasoning is that the Four Kings in dark souls 1 … greedy and associated with gluttony? The cycle must go on, dark or light. I did it myself. Kaathe is deceptive, but Frampt seems dishonest. If so, pics? For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "What if Frampt and Kaathe were actually two heads of the same serpent. Kaathe is more honest about what he wants IMO. Talking to Frampt triggers placing the vessel. I believe they are maybe a bit like Yin and Yang. Letting the fire die was the only way to save the world - … But the dark ending shows Frampt as well, serving. Im at that point in the game where i have to place the Lordvessel with either Frampt or Kaathe, though am not sure which one would be better to keep gameplay wise. He's manipulative, but I don't think he's as "evil". Frampt is as evil as Gwyn for sure. Keeps it simple. Didn't they awaken Manus in an attempt to battle Kalameet? The God's had abandoned the world since Gwyn went hollow. EDIT: A lot of people are pointing out that the Sens Gate Skip isn't needed to fight the Four Kings, which is true. Another discrepancy some people are pointing out that it is possible to get Kaathe without making Frampy angry. Why does Frampt side with Kaathe and the Dark Lord in the DS1 Dark Lord ending? There's a reason The Nameless King sided with the dragons, as their 'war' was pretty one sided hatred from Gwyn after Frampt talked it into him. So do they both show up at the Lordvessel? Returning to the natural state, away from the chaos of disparity, may not be that evil. Kaathe desires the end of the Age of Fire. It works because when you go into death cam, the game doesn't load things like doors, or in this case, the gate. Yes, though evil is subjective in this matter. I'm doing a playthrough and I can't decide between Kaathe's free humanity and infinite invasion items or Frampt's ability to eat everything. They're not so much 'evil' as they are just using you as a means to an end. They both have the same intentions man. Frampt for PvE builds, Kaathe for PvP builds; that’s my philosophy, anyways. Nito, the first of the dead, the Witch of Izalith, and her Daughters of Chaos, Gwyn, the Lord of Sunlight, and his faithful knight… Once you talked to Frampt, Kaathe will get upset and won`t show up until new playthrough. ), but they are always somewhat deciteful. Close. This just allows you to do whatever with Kaathe without upsetting Frampt, not placing the Lordvessel. Another discrepancy some people are pointing out that it is possible to get Kaathe without making Frampy angry. Nope, I really wanted that to happen but never did :(. He can break down Titanite into its smaller components. Kingseeker Frampt only appears after the Bells of Awakening have been rung. If you do what you say whenever you place it, one of them will leave. The key thing that is happening with what I did is that the Lordvessel is placed and I can still use both. To be fair, you weren't "chosen" in DkS1 either. Even after going down to the Altar with both of them, neither of them left. Which should I choose. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Also it's never implied that all Dragons are able to eat the Abyss. "In the Age of Ancients, the world was unformed, shrouded by fog. I'd say Nashandra and Aldia play the same roles as Kaathe and Frampt in this game. So if you want to join the Darkwraiths then you must have the Lordvessel with you when you get to the Abyss. It would make sense they have the same goal, but a different view. Should have made that clearer in the original post, sorry for confusion! A land of gray crags, Archtrees and Everlasting Dragons. He wakes after the second bell of awakening has been rung and can be found inside the watery area of the church ruins – his snoring can be heard in the area after the first bell-chime. Then from the dark, they came, and found the Souls of Lords within the flame. ". It would make sense. The fastest way to end the Age of Fire is to usurp the First Flame, which seemingly ends the Age immediately. 67% Upvoted. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Yeah, there is no real applicability to this, but an interesting find nonetheless. Turns out he was still friendly towards me! I would imagine its something to do with having your camera at a weird angle when going for the riposte. Sound familiar? tldr; Kaathe and Frampt have always been the same being, or at least of the same motive, working to complete a plan that would eventually outlive the Serpents, and end with us becoming the Lord of Hollows at the end of Dark Souls 3. For example, he converts Titanite Chunk into Large Shards of Titanite. Also can you do the sen's skip with DS fix? Quite what they get is not always clear and their social structure is as equally murky (do they begrudgingly work together after the Dark Lord ending? I always got the impression that they were essentially self-serving entities that were wise enough not to put themselves in the firing line by acting as advisors to coerce people to enact their wants. With PvE characters, I want to take my time, get summoned for bosses, and enjoy the different areas, but for PvP, I want to get the Orb ASAP and get down to business. After arriving at Firelink Altar, the player can then, instead of placing the Lordvessel, return to the Abyssand join the covenant while still keeping both serpents in the player's service. Kaathe is another primordial serpent, like Frampt, only Kaathe resides in the Abyss and thinks Frampt is an idiot for siding with Lord Gwyn. Once you talked to Frampt, Kaathe will get upset and won`t show up until new playthrough.That's so wrong lol. Note: Darkstalker Kaathe will not appear if you sided with Frampt and placed the Lordvessel. But, as soon as you place the Lordvessel at least one of them will be hostile towards you, right? While Kaathe is more...open about his intentions. How do you talk to Kaathe before placing the lordvessel? By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. That way they could control everything, as the threat would be nullified. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. So what if Frampt/Kaathe feared Gwyn, and created the Undead Curse as a way to lure potential "soldiers" to the first flame to destroy him? Considering what we know about Londor and Kaathe's role in DS1 I'd imagine he would be worshipped as a deity in a place like that. Which might be the reason kalameet is there. Not because Kaathe or Frampt decided it for you. So you have a God of Sunlight, banished from his sun-god family, coming from Heaven to destroy a many-headed serpent. Also, I believe it is used in speed runs. Ruling over all hollows until the return of the true Lord of Hollows perhaps. You can also keep them bolth friendly by not placing the lordvessel when kathe takes you to the kiln and just homeward boneing out. Good point. The dark is often said to seem serene, tranquil, nostalgic, etc. Lol. Maybe Frampt's real plan was for you to defeat Gwynn, while learning enough along the way to realize rekindling the flame is a bad idea. Kaathe allows you to join the Darkwraith covenant, which grants access to an item (the Red Eye Orb) which allows for infinite invasions. Guess the game doesn't start considering the "take Kaathe, leave Frampt" until you ring both bells and open Sen's Fortress. save hide report. The player could also speak to Kaathe and choose the "warp" option. So I started on my NG+2 on my main character and was too lazy to go kill the Gargoyles and Quelaag so I just used Sen's Gate Skip to skip them for now. Question. The skip is necessary to place the lord vessel before ringing the bells. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. At that point I was curious as to what would happen if I spoke with Frampt now, so I went and rang both bells. That's awesome. (Spoilers)". Well, Kaathe was really the only right choice. We know very little about frampt outside of his role of kingseeker but he could have been a loyal confidant of gwyn or a one time acquaintance who lied about his bond and we will never know. Endings for Dark Souls and Dark Souls Remastered offers detailed guides on being able to acquire the various endings of the story. AltHot. The key thing that is happening with what I did is that the Lordvessel is placed and I can still use both. 'Selfish' is a better word, though both of them are also just smaller pieces of a huge puzzle. We all know Dragons are there to eat the dark/abyss. Darkstalker Kaathe is a Character in Dark Souls.. Encounters. But they don't want the cycle to break. How do you believe Frampt is linked to usher the world into the agw of dark? The Age of Dark is said to begin when the First Flame fades, thus ending the Age of Fire, the Age of the Gods.1 Despite the Age of Dark being a ubiquitous concept throughout the Dark Souls series, it is never the "current" state of the world in any of the existing games. The player must place the Lordvessel for Kaathe instead of Frampt. Frampt, on the other hand, allows you to "sell" items for souls, and he'll break down large titanite pieces into smaller ones. This just allows you to do whatever with Kaathe without upsetting Frampt, not … Imagine fighting Frampt and Kaathe while they were killing eachother. Primordial Serpent After you have rung both Bells of Awakening, in the Undead Parish and Quelaag's Domain, the Kingseeker Frampt appears where there used to be water in the Firelink Shrine. Kingseeker Frampt is a Character in Dark Souls. Both ultimately want you to defeat the lord of cinder. But Kingseer Frampt also has an equally shiny brother with completely different intentions – Darkstalker Kaathe. I imagine I probably also could have fought The Four Kings had I pressed on in that direction, but the ghosts annoyed me and I didn't want to spend the time farming souls for transient curses. Midir was bred for that specific purpose but it's not something we've seen anywhere else. To learn the art of life drain to feed off other humans. Gwyn fought against the dragons after talking to Frampt. Linking a Reddit Theory here, very interesting and well researched theory (and very long). Reaping and shepherding souls and humanity may not be much worse than burning them as an expendable resource to perpetuate a vain existence. We have no evidence that frampt instructed gwyn to start the war with the dragons either. I feeded stuff to Frampt until I get Vessel. I believe Frampt is just as bad, wanting to keep the cycle so he can keep feasting. There are two possible ending for Dark Souls: "To Link the Fire" and "The Dark Lord". Posted by 8 days ago. Frampt or Kaathe. Doing all of that without fast travel was a little tedious. A community dedicated to Dark Souls I, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360/One, and Switch (Remastered). Dragons don’t naturally eat dark. I needed to do that to get the Lordvessel without ringing the bells. The tutorial video said he was in vanilla game on pc. It doesn't seem very clear, haha. Given or dropped by Gwynevere, Princess of Sunlight after the player gains access to Anor Londo and defeats Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough. Just a fun thing I thought I would share. The difference between that and what I did is that I managed to have the Lordvessel placed and they both like me.