In addition to that the finished walkway wasn't cover with a plastic to let the mortar to cure and newly done job stood unprotected from fallowed several-hours-in-a-raw shower. After compacting the soil, then laying and compacting 4 inches of item 4 you lay one inch of stone dust, this is just for leveling the pavers not the foundation of the patio. Once fully hardened the gelling sand will not sweep away, blow away, or wash away when cleaning your walk/patio. Stone dust is widely used as a setting bed for any of the various types of stone pavers (flagstone pavers such as bluestone being an example) used by homeowners in small projects. problems contact webmaster@doityourself.com. DoItYourself.com®, founded in 1995, is the leading independent It contains gravel, sand and some stone dust underneath it now. If you lay a patio on only one inch of stone dust I don't think it would turn out well, especially if you live in cold climates with a winter freeze. I like the look and using spacers allowed me to adjust the alignment for bricks which may not be uniform size. Then I will add a 3" layer of pea stones. You want this layer to be uniform and compact, or everything else you do afterwards will suffer. I guess the bottom line here stone dust and sand both work as a base for your patio it all depends on personal preferance. Minimal heaving will still occur (exspecially with a clay base under the sand) but thats where sands ability to shift comes into play. If freezing temperatures are present while the stone dust is still moist, the base will probably move (frost heaves). I have been in the business 22 years and I see all the experts' jobs - they are terrible. However last year I was talking with a employee of Grimm building supply (where we get all our paver materials) and I was told sand is the ONLY way to go for numerous reasons. I am about to start a sidewalk paver rehab, was about to head out for materials when I read your posting. Install the brick. Wet the area, let it dry and repeat again. Stone dust is often used in areas where there is a lot of underground water, as it will absorb less water than sand. The local stone yard calles it "road base" among other things. Get Started With Excavation. Use 4 inches of stone dust, but apply 2 inches first...then compact it with a manual or mechanical tamper....then thoroughly soak with water and wait a couple of days before applying the 2nd layer of stone dust and tamping and watering again. But tiny cracks do form, and weeds will get in there, roots will grow, cracks will get worse. Brick Walkway Installation Mistakes to Avoid. Having laid more pavers than I care to remember I would have to say the idea of 4' of sand under the pavers is a mistake I don't care how well it's compacted and I could show you patios laid that way to prove it. And to add to the above queries, is the advice in this thread relevant to small retaining walls built out of those blocks that you put together without mortar? Crusher run, on the other hand, drains much better. to this site, and use it for non-commercial use subject to our terms of use. Stone dust is often used in areas where there is a lot of underground water, as it will absorb less water than sand. I got more blue and green paint chips so I'll have to go back for more options. 4. Do You Have Design Ideas for This Rock Garden. The only periodic maintenance I need to do is sweep new stone dust in the spaces between the bricks one ever 4-5 years. Depending upon your personal preference, you can butt the bricks directly up against one another or place a think spacer between them. sorry, I guess I wasn't clear in my post/question. How To Install Interlocking Pavers Rcp Block Brick. 25 years ago I had to choose between stone dust and sand when laying a brick patio using standard sized bricks. Thanks very much for taking the time to post. PowerLoc Jointing Sand from Quikrete is a polymer based product that prevents it from washing out or cracking. Product Overview The Pavestone 0.5 cu. What can I expect the finished height to drop after that compaction run, maybe a quarter inch? In order o make the pavers inline properly, you have to level the … Provide a 2' wide planting area between the driveway and sidewalk for boxwoods or hostas, depending on the sun orientation and shade of the front yard. The stone dust was put on top of clay. Pour the sand onto the pavers and sweep it into the joints. I will also make it easier to slide the bricks into place. Yes, as many of us said, live in your space for a while, but you'll want to get the messy stuff done first....but that long rectangular window should really go...this will also increase the value of your home!! Inferiority of Stone Dust Also called rock dust, stone dust is more prone than sand to settling and drainage problems when used as a base beneath walkway or patio pavers. I figure the sand will be a lot easier to lay my pavers on because I can squish it around, add and take out material as I go along with a level. I will say that ANY patio I have EVER seen built in my 10 years landscaping, built by me or others, was laid on a compacted layer of stone dust OR sand. I personally found in my 10 years experiance I like sand 100% better over stone dust but to each is own. I would be concerned with what is under the stone dust. I would like to improve a concret slab patio that is lower than I want due to water running on the concret from the higher grass. I've seen some pictures that I like but maybe you could tell me what gray would look like on this type of cabinet? Install some water permeable landscaping membrane on a fairly well leveled area. Hi Mica!! The guy who uses concrete sand offered a 5 year guarantee on his work. Stone dust turns to a hard almost clay like material when wet. D x 8 in. Will sprinkling some stone dust in that area to soak up some of the moisture help keep the overgrowth down? I believe the mfr I picked also recommended concrete sand for the bedding sand. They did an awesome job and the walkway did not budge an inch during the winter (frost/thaw/heave). Dan made the key point: COMPACTED. Is polymeric sand the stuff that hardens like concrete? 6. His brother told him to use playsand as a final sweep which he did. That's an old house and so old walkway. I have an overgrowth of bamboo in my backyard where the ground stays very moist and does not drain off good. Item 4 is a mix of gravel rock from dust to 3/4 inch stone. Or can we just sweep away as much as we can and add the polymeric sand on top? There is a procedure the job was done: removed the slate slabs, put a roll of sick plastic on a ground (to prevent a grass and weeds growing??? This means... Low cost- In comparison to other options, such as sand, stone dust is usually a cheaper option. Replaced the retaining wall and all of the steps leading up to the front door, including encasing the existing concrete stoop. Repair Tree Root Damage to a Paver Walkw... Repair Tree Root Damage to a Paver Walkway. Hope nothing has changed since you wrote in way back in 2006. This dust is what causes the stains once it is wet. Jen is a contributing writer for DoItYourself.com. I used aluminum about 4 inches tall. They've rented a backhoe and compactor. All 3 of them use polymeric sand for the finish sweep. For instance dug washed masons sand won't fully compact no matter what you do it will always shift because it has no fines and no angles to the particles to "lock up" to each other. The underlying ground here in Virginia is fairly high content clay. In one of the paver catalogs (not the mfr I picked but a high end one), the warranty had an exclusion if stone dust was used for bedding layer. Think about this. Level the Land. Any other advice? The varying sizes makes it great for compaction. I recently had a walkway for a gazebo done in my backyard 4 yards total . I don't want sand being tracked into my house. I was asking about the final "bedding layer" only. Riding Ring Mix Thanks, john. I didnt put it up here to be bashed by someone, I put it up for those of you who would like more info on patio's and sidewalks. Moisten the base, and continue adding more stone dust until it levels across the top. For filling in the cracks between bricks, what does anyone think about watering in a layer of stone dust down first and then topping it off with sand? You should also consider that stone dust has a higher pH than the ground, which may cause the pavers to deteriorate over time. home improvement and repair website. Unfortunately, none of them are well suited to the bedding layer under patios or walkways. Both sand and stone dust act as an underlay for the pavers, and while both can be used, there are some reasons why people might prefer sand. All of the flagstones are no longer level to each other after 10 years of this. Will this product wear out of the grout joints? (BTW, I really don't understand the comments about stone dust not draining well....you will see the water soak quickly through the stone dust. It also is a neutral pH which will not affect the pavers. In the last 10 years my brick patio has sunk about 2 inches. The sand is not that good as it doesn't compact as well as the stone dust. So without having the water built up under your walkway it is alot less likely to heave. I used full size bricks which are more stable. It can be smoothed to create a very flat surface and it is strong enough to support the weight of stone pavers , which can be quite … These broken-up pathways invite you to put a spring in your step — while adding functionality to the garden, Spend less time patching up partnerships and more time spackling and sanding with this insight from a Houzz remodeling survey, Today's Stepping Stones Define a Space While Adding Affordable Style, Learn about durable masonry essentials for houses and landscapes, and why some weighty-looking pieces are lighter than they look, You can't eliminate dust during construction, but there are ways to contain and remove as much of it as possible, Breathe easier with these 10 tips for busting mites, dander and other microscopic undesirables, Water may be scarce, but color and striking foliage are as profuse in the desert landscape as the sunsets are breathtaking, Informal and vibrant, cottage gardens charm with their billowy abundance. Is it possible to lay brick in top of the concret? This, in my opinion would be absolutely stunning...and open the dark space...let me know if I can help you in any other way!! Now that your sand base is laid and your pavers are down its time to sweep polymetric gelling sand into the cracks of the pavers than lightly water it in. ), 3. . Will this be a problem w/weeds? Stone Dust. Most contractors and do-it-yourselfers, who have worked with both stone dust and crusher run, would agree that crusher run is the winner for compacting. Well thatsenough rambling so good luck with your project and as long as yoy like it that's all that really matters anyway.:). Than filled the spaces between the slabs with the same mortar. Stone dust is something that?s being produced when the stones are crushed by the crushers. Our stone dust is sold as fines with up to ¼ crushed stone. Use the broom to push the sand between the paving stones, sweeping in all directions until the sand is relatively compacted. I am using 4" stones and gravel as my base, placing pieces of old brick and broken terra cotta roof tiles that I had lying around on the very bottom. The dust contains very fine particles so compacted stone dust sets up to form a waterproof barrier under the pavers. After they put the gravel base in and compacted, that was the end of their day 1 on the job. thanks ann, I will start a new discussion, but I think once someone said Navajo white had the redder tones, the rust started to make more sense. Stone Dust When stone is crushed or cut, a fine dust is produced that many companies sell as a base for paver patios and walkways. I am a women trying to do it myself. All rights reserved. I'm putting a wall around the patio and into the hill. That will allow you the room for movement and shifting. Pavers made of concrete??? This was placed in an effort to promote drainage under the patio. I can absolutely state that stone dust is the way to go.... here are a few pointers; 1. Reason being, is I am trying to have the finished product level with concrete around a pool. Add a layer of landscape fabric over the tamped soil. The tool available for rental likely looks more like a lawn mower than the tool in the video (which is very expensive). - but what about the water accumulation and lock of draining? 2 of them would use 1"-2" of stone dust over the gravel base. Tamper at every step in the process thereafter. All information is provided "AS IS." Please answer ASAP -- thank you!Joan. suggestions. Occasionally a nearby tree root will distort things a bit but that will happen with either sand or stone dust. They are both very handy and very strong guys. Here we use a limestone "road pack" sometimes the bottom lift may be a screened 3/4' rock if drainage is a real concern. A wide variety of stone dust for pavers options are available to you, such as condition, local service location, and applicable industries. If you could post an image of the front of you home, you could tie in architectural features to emphasize through hardscape and landscape and create curb appeal. Pour stone dust over pea gravel, and rake the rocks to work the stone dust down. Hannah is a contributing writer and former editor for DoItYourself.com. Do anybody have an opinion about the way the job was done? I don't think the above has any basis in fact and should be viewed with caution. As for the drainage aspect, any patio or walkway rgardless of the material should have at least a minimal slope to it. I also called them today. I put in a french drain to help with water drainage and it has worked great! It absorbs moisture, holds on to it and drains very slowly. I am so grateful for all the help and opinions you all have shared. I have honey oak cabinets just like these in my kitchen, 4 bathrooms and a laundry room -- don't like them at all and have been researching painting vs. refacing vs. replacing . Website operating Applying Sand. The person used various sizes of crusher run (gravel)at each level and then topped it off with stone dust. Hope this helps. All job was done in about a 4-5 hrs. So I googled sand vs. stone dust and landed here. Depending on the paving stone design or job specifications, Gator Dust polymeric stone dust will be your very best choice to secure pavers in place for years, and prevent sprouting … Some of these include: Flat and smooth- You can lay stone dust very flat and smooth to create an even and level surface for paving. The ground under the patio is clay -- no topsoil at all, so it is very firm.Is this a wise way to be doing this? It's reassuring to know that the stone dust was a good choice! They said that they could mail it to you. It has held firmly and drained well. Paver bases require several inches of excavation. Once the pavers have been laid on the sand, the joints must be filled to create an even surface that will not slip or slide out of place. First, a bed for the pavers must be excavated and filled with crushed stone or gravel. submitted to our "DoItYourself.com Community Forums". The total excavation is about 8-10". To start stone dust does not have good drainage when packed down which causes water to build up under the patio/walkway. 1/2" in 10ft.can be sufficient, and this is in the base as well as the finish. If you want to lay a paver walkway, you will have to decide whether to use stone dust or sand for this job. Sorry, but I could not sign in. Coarse Sand coarse washed sand used under pavers and in making concrete (not always available) Stone Dusts Coarse Stone Dust Blue Stone Dust Available in Blue, Lavender or our own Natural Gray. It was like walking on solid concrete. Can I use sand stone or do I ust a mortor to lay bricks on top. Also, in one of the final steps, that of leveling/compacting the pavers into the setting bed (whether using a mechanical compactor or by hand with a rubber mallet) the vibration it produces brings some of the setting bed material up into the joints, helping to lock in the pavers. I've already tried other methods to kill it, but nothing works! I just remove a few bricks and cut out the root. Not because of overbearing or arbitrary regulation, but bec… I dont know how you build patios. The gelling sand prevents weeds from coming up out of the cracks and helps stop water from getting under the pavers. Will that mess up my cement ? They are doing it themselves, with the help of some other friends and neigbors. 1995-2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. The material is easy to install and the results looked fantastic. Look you even somewhat said it yourself, the bricks are COMPACTED into the sand. 28 years later I am still VERY happy with my results. You may freely link It?s mostly used for bedding. My husband and neighbor are putting in patios --starting this weekend. Adding stone dust is one way to stabilize pea gravel and form a similar base. You could also add a set of French doors. One inch of sand or stone dust on top of soil will buckle and waver really easily. The real base for a patio is the compacted sub-surface and the sand or stone dust is used only for levelling and is therefore not compacted. A good base is the most important part,4"-8" for a patio or walk depending on the existing soil conditions,more for a driveway of very compactable material. When the ground under the sand heaves the sand will actually move with it giving the ground room to swell without pushing your walkway/patio up. I don't work for Direct Buy but if you are planning to do a lot of renovating, You will save thousands of dollars buying from them. This video explains what can happen if you use polymeric sand on remodel type paver projects. I realize this is an old thread, but I have a question related to it that isn't quite answered here. I hired a Contractor to redo it. It expands. We removed a curved portion of the walkway and created a terrace/patio before the last three steps at the door. Stone dust is also cheaper than sand, and is more environmentally friendly, making it a suitable base for your paver … Sorry - failed to mention that I live in Northeast Ohio if that proves helpful to someone based on the materials we've used. Like Tonyd we've been told different things by different people. The sand helps to secure the pavers into a uniform and durable surface. This is what you use to compact and build your base, heck the Roman used this to pave the known universe, some roads still stand today. Also, I'll back fill the wall with crusher stone then topsoil on top. Also, I agree with the last lady re: your windows... Have that area blown out and you could put floor to ceiling windows with white panes in the glass if you want to. Give then some good wacks...full-sized bricks can take it so long as you use wood as a buffer. Polymeric sand often comes into play at the end of a landscape paving project, including projects involving concrete pavers, brick pavers, and stone pavers. Just make sure the base is deep enough and compacted. Once compacted, walking directly on it leaves no footprints and working on it barely disturbs it. My question is if anybody knows which is the best way to go? COMPACTED being the key word. The wood frame wasn't installed at all, as a result the edges are not straight and walkway itself not leveled and has wavy surface. Four to six inches of that stuff are compacted before the stone and levelling sand are laid. We just finished a stone walkway and our stone supplier also recommended a base of 4" sand, then filling in cracks with the stone dust. I use pieces of asphalt roofing shingles to maintain uniform spacing. Step 2 Sweep the sand into all the spaces between your pavers, starting on one side and working your way toward the other. Masonry sand for mortar should never be used for bedding, nor should limestone screenings or stone dust....as they often do not compact uniformly and can inhibit lateral drainage of moisture..." Concrete sand (coarse granular sand) used as the setting bed (in 1" thickness or less) will prevent these potential problems. when compacting it is best to do in 2 inch layers rather than filling an area and then compacting, help selecting granite venitian gold vs river white, Old Oak Kitchen Bites the Dust and Gets White Makeover, Help with paver driveway + walkway design. One would be hard-pressed to find stone dust underlying major municipal or commercial projects, for instance. My husband installed a small walkway with pavers, the base is done with sand. The neighbor is laying brick; we're doing pavers for a 12' by 20' patio. 7. Finally, add the 4" of top layer sand or stone dust (I'm leaning towards sand). Working off the finished area lay the pavers and when you run the compactor over the pavers they settle in and lock up. Some her favorites include home improvement, car sales, personal finance, and digital cameras. The smallest particles, called fines, are more granular (not powdery). The real downside to stone dust is that it can be affected by frost. I always used to use stone dust as a base for paver walkways/patios. The joints between patio pavers are usually filled with sand, which has a tendency to wash out of the cracks over time. This will allow for more interest in planting areas. The irregular shapes of the stone dust will lock the bricks into position much better than sand, which is more round. It is also useful when building a patio of natural stone. OK so whats the diffrence if you pack your sand or stone dust with a tamper first, or like you must do, beat your stones into the sand ?? Stone dust will only get hard "under" the pavers and actually hold water, which is another issue. I had the same dilemna last year. I'm planning on doing a patio with pavers. Check for utilities under the area you want to add pavers to. I'm also wondering if these honey oak cabinets can be sanded and stained gray? Make the area as level as possible using a screed (look it up :). The s You don't use stone dust for compacting, you have to lay at least four inches of compactable sub base like item 4. Sand also has a neutral PH which doesnt break down your pavers. Does anyone think I should use masonry adhesive between each brick in the wall? He now thinks it was not the right sand and wants to use the polymeric sand. The client wanted an area for potted plants and outdoor seating. Questions of a Do It Yourself nature should be View our Privacy Policy here. How should he go about this? Either full size bricks or the thinner pavers. "Actually, stone dust is more difficult to compact fully than crusher run, the aggregate base material mentioned earlier. … The men that did the job forgot to put sand on the bottom . It is important to have a MINIMAL of a 4 inch deep, packed sand base (recommend more if you have alot of clay in the area). She gave me a brochure that shows this, but it doesn't seem specific to where I live, which is Minnesota where it obviously freezes a lot. My friend used stone dust and he found it hard to keep all his pavers level and the end result is a somewhat wavy floor. Just my 2 cents. H, you can also use the sand for paver leveling or as paver joint sand. Heres the answer, and the difference between the two: http://www.plymouthquarries.com/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle%26id%3D16%26Itemid%3D3. As for drainage, stone dust's powdery nature inhibits drainage. 5. These tips help you bring the look to your own landscape, Earthy, lush and warmly welcoming, a Mediterranean garden can thrive in any warm-climate landscape with a few adaptations, Symmetry and geometry define this decorous landscape style, appropriate for both grand gardens and intimate spaces, 7 Questions to Ask Before Laying Stepping Stones, Wisdom to Help Your Relationship Survive a Remodel, Raw Materials Revealed: Brick, Block and Stone Help Homes Last, What to Know About Controlling Dust During Remodeling, What You Need to Know About Dust and How to Fight It, Lay of the Landscape: Southwestern Garden Style, Lay of the Landscape: Cottage Garden Style, Lay of the Landscape: Mediterranean Garden Style, Lay of the Landscape: French Garden Style. This material is often called concrete sand. I just completed a flagstone patio and used sand but I do not care for the trail of sand that goes to the porch and house. Do not dump in your base materials. The company that sells the pavers says to use stone dust and that is the preference of most of their commercial contractors and I have read a hundred different article that go back and forth. As soon as I finished a steady rain feel for the next day and there was no puddling anywhere on the surface. This will cause the sand to consolidate. I recently completed a patio using stone dust, under the stone dust I had 2 inches of #1 stone. 2 . Concrete sand is better suited to make this happen.". To ensure that the bricks are level with one another, place a piece of piece of wood (approx 3" x 8" by 3/4" ) across the surfaces of the brick you are working on and its adjoining bricks...then hammer it with a large mallet until they all the bricks are even. Sound good? Ground frost will swell up water below the dust, which can then force up the patio. Four inches of item 4 will keep your patio from heaving in the freeze. There’s no argument that stone dust has some extremely useful properties. ?, but not a Q-P stone as stated in a Contract, than pour a mortar and RIGHT AWAY placed a slate stones slabs without preparation a concrete base bed. Sounds like we have a similar yard and just had a patio installed last week. Shop paver sand and a variety of lawn & garden products online at Lowes.com. Part of it is into a hill that I expect a lot of water to come running down. I'm in Wisconsin, where we have a lot of freezing weather, and what we use here sounds like mike d30's "Item 4." The landscaper can compact the dust … Clay also retains alot of water and will heave quite a bit come winter time. Work with the elevations and topography a bit more to delineate between walkways and driveway, provide a relaxed assent to the porch instead a single surfaces with steps at the very edge. Copyright© Sand packs down well, still provides drainage, and also has the … Choosing The Right Paver Base Material Nitterhouse Masonry. However, you can use it for paver joints as well to get substantially strong bonding. I have a six inch base of compacted item 4. All the best Mica, Susan. Using a broom handle or some other blunt object, tap on the pavers. It can prevent weed from growing and prevent the rainwater from going into the base of the paving efficiently. The installation is in progress now. Alliance Gator Maxx G2 Intelligent Polymeric Sand for Paver and Natural Stone Jo… Can someone give me some advice. Don't forget the polymeric gelling sand for the cracks, or else you will end up with grass and weeds growing up through the cracks. My flagstone rear patio is set in stonedust and also in joints heaves during the winter and frequently needs sweeping in extra stonedust in the spring. … Take care and can't wait to see the choices that you made. It went great. If so, how do I go about having the ground cover AND eliminating weeds? The company that makes the pavers said to use sand when I called them. The next step is 1" of concrete sand used as bedding for the stones. Anyhow I went with the "washed concrete sand" bid over the stone dust. Types of Sand Used for Pavers Most people are familiar with the idea that stone pavers must be laid on top of a layer of sand. ;o). I just got through putting in 400sq ft. belgard pavers on #10 crusher run as my 5" base on east TN clay the a 1" screed layer of the same #10 crusher run. With assembled dimensions of 15 in. It can also be used for decorative aggregates. Just layed the base for a sandstone patio using recycled 304. I was at Home Depot yesterday looking into materials for a stone patio, and the associate told me I only needed 2" of their Paver Base (which it sounds like is the stone dust discussed above) followed by 1" of play sand. Use it in walkways, paver installation, stables and barns, and horse rings.